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8/23/2016 8:18 pm  #21


Re: Unflipping Believable

Braveone99 wrote:

DollyLongstaff wrote:

Question.
Why under any circumstance would a policeman feel a need to dangle a very petite woman up in the air?

Was she resisting arrest? Obviously not.

If the officer thought she was guilty of something, why wasn't she searched or charged?

Why did both officers refuse to identify themselves?

Hello Dolly,

Why under any circumstance would a policeman feel a need to dangle a very petite woman up in the air?
Maybe to put her under control after responding to an assault call? Would you prefer he throw her to the ground (which he could have done)? 

If a cop that size can't control a woman her size he should be working security at Walmart.
He also had an assisting officer and was in no danger unless he was afraid she would kick him in the groin.



Was she resisting arrest? Obviously not.
Not obvious from the video.

Indeed. All we saw was a cop three times her size dangling her in the air..


If the officer thought she was guilty of something, why wasn't she searched or charged?
The officer never said she was guilty of anything. He was responding to a call and investigating.

Who made the call? I haven't heard about any call to police.

He could have searched her but did not because he believed she was not guilty and did not charge her with anything. He was doing his job. 

Jesus, Mary and Joseph Brave. Deliver me from police officers doing their "job". Dangling  women in the air, getting in their face, calling them a prostitute and then releasing them when the find they're not guilt of anything.

I wonder how they would have treated a real criminal?


This is an example of why police in this country are getting a bad rep, and you're contributing to it.




Why did both officers refuse to identify themselves?
You don't know that they didn't identify themselves. BTW, the officer's name is on their uniform for all to see. 


 

 

 

Last edited by DollyLongstaff (8/23/2016 8:35 pm)


Back with a vengeance possums!
 

8/23/2016 9:25 pm  #22


Re: Unflipping Believable

Vantro wrote:

Brave I feel for everyone in law enforcement right now. Even though ppl have a real argument with police unfortunately some feel they can take matters into their own hands & end up harming innocent officers. It is just sad all around. I just want to see the problems acknowledged & the community to channel their anger into demands for these problems to be solved. Work together. The community could also address some issues as well, but until police take the lead in those communities it won't happen imo.

I agree Vantro, we need to work together for these problems to be solved. 


“She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her.” 
― Zora Neale HurstonTheir Eyes Were Watching God
 

8/23/2016 11:52 pm  #23


Re: Unflipping Believable

DollyLongstaff wrote:

Braveone99 wrote:

DollyLongstaff wrote:

Question.
Why under any circumstance would a policeman feel a need to dangle a very petite woman up in the air?

Was she resisting arrest? Obviously not.

If the officer thought she was guilty of something, why wasn't she searched or charged?

Why did both officers refuse to identify themselves?

Hello Dolly,

Why under any circumstance would a policeman feel a need to dangle a very petite woman up in the air?
Maybe to put her under control after responding to an assault call? Would you prefer he throw her to the ground (which he could have done)? 

If a cop that size can't control a woman her size he should be working security at Walmart.
He also had an assisting officer and was in no danger unless he was afraid she would kick him in the groin.



Was she resisting arrest? Obviously not.
Not obvious from the video.

Indeed. All we saw was a cop three times her size dangling her in the air..


If the officer thought she was guilty of something, why wasn't she searched or charged?
The officer never said she was guilty of anything. He was responding to a call and investigating.

Who made the call? I haven't heard about any call to police.

He could have searched her but did not because he believed she was not guilty and did not charge her with anything. He was doing his job. 

Jesus, Mary and Joseph Brave. Deliver me from police officers doing their "job". Dangling  women in the air, getting in their face, calling them a prostitute and then releasing them when the find they're not guilt of anything.

I wonder how they would have treated a real criminal?


This is an example of why police in this country are getting a bad rep, and you're contributing to it.




Why did both officers refuse to identify themselves?
You don't know that they didn't identify themselves. BTW, the officer's name is on their uniform for all to see. 

 

 

 

Dolly,

"Jesus, Mary and Joseph Brave. Deliver me from police officers doing their "job"." 
Unless you might need one of course. 
 


“She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her.” 
― Zora Neale HurstonTheir Eyes Were Watching God
 

8/24/2016 10:35 am  #24


Re: Unflipping Believable

There should be nationwide standards for policing citizens in this country: 4 yr degrees, experience in working with people from disparate backgrounds, training on when to use a gun vs a Taser gun.
Please understand that if you are a brown person in this country, there is valid reason to fear the police. Unless you are brown, you will never understand this fear. It's justified.
Cops make assumptions about brown people that they do not make about non-browns. This might seem silly but what if you had to live in this fear?
Example: You are packing your car for vacation at 4am in the morning to get an early start. Cop comes by and stops to ask, "moving in the middle of the night?"  This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: You are driving down the street in Small Town, USA. Cop stops you and asks for ID and "where ya headed?" This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: 3 young people get arrested for a drug transaction; 2 white 1 black. Ultimately the two whites get off, maybe with probation but the black spends at least one year in jail.
Please, please believe that these things happen. It's just AWFUL to live in fear of being stopped by the cops.

 

8/24/2016 9:20 pm  #25


Re: Unflipping Believable

Ooh....cop college. Not just training, but so much more! I like it, but maybe not 4yrs. Like your ideas!


I will not kneel before Zod. 
 

8/25/2016 1:51 pm  #26


Re: Unflipping Believable

I just wonder what police have to do to satisfy people. Do they have to just let people go when the start resisting or trying to run away?  Do they only arrest people if they choose to cooperate?  Police officers are trying to do a very difficult job. They are not perfect and police work does sometimes get ugly.  If this woman did go nuts and started swinging on the cop would it have been better to slam her down on the ground? I think maybe despite how it looks it could have been the least violent way to bring her under control. I still haven't heard the rest of the story.  I am willing to bet there is good reason that woman ended up pinned against the vehicle. I do not believe she did absolutely nothing to provoke it.


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

8/25/2016 4:41 pm  #27


Re: Unflipping Believable

Vantro: Cop College may be the way to go.
Needtosay: Jail/Prison is a huge industry in this country. They are built in rural areas of the country to provide a huge industry and local citizens with business and jobs. (Ask Dick Cheney) The jails and prisons are filled with black and brown men and the numbers of black and brown females is on the rise. It's all about money. That is motive and incentive to arrest people to provide bodies to fill these jails and prisons. Make sense? Mass incarceration is the new Jim Crow.
Local cops may not even see the FULL picture of this situation but the incentive is there for them to arrest people. Mandatory drug laws (some cases) force judges to jail people for minor possession of small amounts of drugs. (Marijuana). It's all very systematic.
A video here, a video there......it's a joke to "them". The cops rarely get convicted. They don't even care if they are filmed roughing people up anymore.  And I have seen stuff happen first hand. 

 

8/25/2016 6:17 pm  #28


Re: Unflipping Believable

Good cops are being maligned in the process of all this. I really don't think that is the answer. That isn't going to solve the problems.  I do think that amongst the police there are bad ones as they are a very diverse group of people. They do have emotions and feel fear just like everyone else. When a police officer gets out of line yes they should answer for it but we have to be care with all this posting of videos and photos on social media that just shows a small part of an incident.  It is so easy to make good cops look really bad like that. That is why I say we need to know the whole story before we make a judgement on the officer.  That photo looks really bad but it is just a second in time and I guarantee there is more that happened than what it shows.  I just cannot believe that a cop would just grab a woman on a crowded street and pin her up against a vehicle for no reason what so ever.  I don't know if it was warranted or not but I do feel very strongly that we haven't been told the whole story by this woman or by this photo or the video that is out.   I just think we should put slamming this officer on hold until the investigation has concluded we get the whole story.
 

Last edited by needtosay (8/25/2016 6:19 pm)


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

8/25/2016 6:34 pm  #29


Re: Unflipping Believable

There already is a cop college so to speak. It is called the police academy which they all go through. Zeke I know that mass incarceration is more of a hinderance than help in this country. I do believe that our incarceration system needs a major overhaul for sure.  Personally I think there needs to more of an emphasis on rehabilitation and less on punishment. Our goal should be to help these individuals turn their lives around and make it possible for them to live law abiding lives. I think the emphasis on punishment is the problem with our system.  I do agree we need to change our penal system for sure. 


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

8/26/2016 10:51 am  #30


Re: Unflipping Believable

Need:  "Personally I think there needs to more of an emphasis on rehabilitation and less on punishment. Our goal should be to help these individuals turn their lives around and make it possible for them to live law abiding lives. I think the emphasis on punishment is the problem with our system.  I do agree we need to change our penal system for sure."

Zeke:  Need, I agree with you here. On the other hand, there is too much complacency regarding these issues: Let's wait for further explanation, let's see the full video, let's wait to hear the witnesses, let's check out the background of the witnesses. I understand process but I also understand this game: wait it out until the smoke clears and we can all go back to being happy and gay. Meanwhile the lives of most victims in these shootings are turned around and destroyed forever. Some rot in jail, children go with out parents, jobs never had because of prison records, less than average educational opportunities.
But here's what I do know:  the shootings have to cease.

 

8/26/2016 2:21 pm  #31


Re: Unflipping Believable

I agree with you but the question is what do we do with those who persist  breaking the law?  We can't just look the other way because then we will have no law and order in this country. The lives taken by police officers in the line of duty are not taken in vain. In most cases they are taken out of necessity. I don't look at those who have been killed by cops as victims in most cases.  I agree that the shootings have to cease but so does the violence and crime breaking in this country.  I think both sides have to do some reckoning with themselves. Responsibility has to be taken by both sides and both sides have to participate in the solving of the problem.
 


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

8/26/2016 4:01 pm  #32


Re: Unflipping Believable

You're not taking into account the unfair treatment because of racism. To be "blind" to color is a myth. Many, NOT ALL cops assume black-brown people are always up to no-good. Too many auto-assumptions that are not a small matter: young kid playing in the park (Ohio) and cops drive up and shoot with no hesitation. NO EXCUSE FOR IT. Then they let him lay there and bleed out. Not ok.

 

8/26/2016 10:27 pm  #33


Re: Unflipping Believable

zeke wrote:

There should be nationwide standards for policing citizens in this country: 4 yr degrees, experience in working with people from disparate backgrounds, training on when to use a gun vs a Taser gun.
Please understand that if you are a brown person in this country, there is valid reason to fear the police. Unless you are brown, you will never understand this fear. It's justified.
Cops make assumptions about brown people that they do not make about non-browns. This might seem silly but what if you had to live in this fear?
Example: You are packing your car for vacation at 4am in the morning to get an early start. Cop comes by and stops to ask, "moving in the middle of the night?"  This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: You are driving down the street in Small Town, USA. Cop stops you and asks for ID and "where ya headed?" This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: 3 young people get arrested for a drug transaction; 2 white 1 black. Ultimately the two whites get off, maybe with probation but the black spends at least one year in jail.
Please, please believe that these things happen. It's just AWFUL to live in fear of being stopped by the cops.

Hi Zeke!

There are standards for policing in the majority of our communities: 4 yr degrees, experience working with the community, physically fit, compassion etc..Training on how and when to use a firearm is paramount in the Police Academy. Can't become a cop without passing the Academy, just sayin. The standards are not yet nationwide but we are working on this. 

I disagree that all cops make assumptions about 'brown people' or people of any color for that matter. Why do you say this? The job is law enforcement, having nothing at all to do with color. 

I do believe that things happen and they should be addressed accordingly. Perhaps not the most popular response, but if you fear being stopped by the cops you are likely guilty of something. 
 


“She stood there until something fell off the shelf inside her.” 
― Zora Neale HurstonTheir Eyes Were Watching God
 

8/27/2016 9:47 am  #34


Re: Unflipping Believable

When I speak of training I am not just referring to police officer. I am talking about top to bottom. Leaders fail the ppl & police constantly & what we are seeing is aftermath of years of complacency & failure on their behalf. Tamir Rice is a perfect example of all around failure. From leaders to dispatch to the actual officers involved was a complete & deadly failure that could have been avoided.

Dispatch failed to relay all info to officers, but before Tamir or the call ever happened leaders failed us by hiring officer Loehman who was deemed unfit for duty by another department & was let go. He was then hired by Cleveland. He was the officer who shot tamir. Why was he let go from independence police? Because he failed under pressure & actually broke down crying during training.

The other officer in the tamir incident was Frank Garmback was also questionable.  On Aug. 7, 2010, Eaton, who was 39 at the time, returned to her home to find a car parked in front of her driveway on Clifton Boulevard. She called Cleveland police and to have a tow-truck sent. Eaton then got ready for bed.

Cleveland police had been sent to Eaton's neighborhood to find a suspect in a slaying. Garmback and Guerra found a man and woman walking down the street. The officers quickly arrested the man, despite the woman's loud protests, according to documents Bradley and Marein filed.

Eaton came out of her home and believed that the officers were responding to her complaint of the car blocking her driveway. The lawsuit said Eaton did not want the person arrested for her complaint.

Garmback initially argued with Eaton. It said Garmback then "rushed (Eaton) and placed her in a chokehold, tackled her to the ground, twisted her wrist and began hitting her body. Officer Guerra rushed over and proceeded to punch Tamela Eaton in the face multiple times.''

THIS is what we here in Cleveland are upset about & want to see changed. I can imagine that Baltimore & other cities with bad DOJ reports feel the same! Especially when too many ppl keep making excuses for the police no matter what they do!

Btw Eaton was award $100,000 for that incident. Too many of clevelands police department are sitting on the wrong side right now & are costing taxpayers even more money. Why are some so resistant to acknowledging that we do have a very serious problem with police in this nation? Majority do not hate police. Lack of respect does not equate hate. It just means they have never earned the respect or lost it. For me, I respect my city's finest, but I do not trust or respect Cleveland police.

Last edited by Vantro (8/27/2016 9:54 am)


I will not kneel before Zod. 
 

8/27/2016 12:57 pm  #35


Re: Unflipping Believable

I'm just picking and choosing a few things from this thread because you all have explained very well what your points are-

Please understand that if you are a brown person in this country, there is valid reason to fear the police. Unless you are brown, you will never understand this fear. It's justified.
Cops make assumptions about brown people that they do not make about non-browns.
YES 100% true.

To be "blind" to color is a myth.
YES 10000000% true.

I do believe that things happen and they should be addressed accordingly. Perhaps not the most popular response, but if you fear being stopped by the cops you are likely guilty of something. 
Bullshit! (probably not the most popular response either) 
If you  haven't walked, ran or DWB, you have no idea how wrong this statement is-I know white people who are afraid of the police and they aren't guilty of anything either.

Cop college would be good but would most likely deter a lot of police officers. Courses AFTER graduating the Police Academy should be required. Continuing education, if you will.  Doctors have to take courses to keep their licenses annually, why not Police?

I'll sit down now

 

 

8/28/2016 10:04 pm  #36


Re: Unflipping Believable

Braveone99 wrote:

zeke wrote:

There should be nationwide standards for policing citizens in this country: 4 yr degrees, experience in working with people from disparate backgrounds, training on when to use a gun vs a Taser gun.
Please understand that if you are a brown person in this country, there is valid reason to fear the police. Unless you are brown, you will never understand this fear. It's justified.
Cops make assumptions about brown people that they do not make about non-browns. This might seem silly but what if you had to live in this fear?
Example: You are packing your car for vacation at 4am in the morning to get an early start. Cop comes by and stops to ask, "moving in the middle of the night?"  This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: You are driving down the street in Small Town, USA. Cop stops you and asks for ID and "where ya headed?" This would not have happened to a none brown person.
Example: 3 young people get arrested for a drug transaction; 2 white 1 black. Ultimately the two whites get off, maybe with probation but the black spends at least one year in jail.
Please, please believe that these things happen. It's just AWFUL to live in fear of being stopped by the cops.

Hi Zeke!

There are standards for policing in the majority of our communities: 4 yr degrees, experience working with the community, physically fit, compassion etc..Training on how and when to use a firearm is paramount in the Police Academy. Can't become a cop without passing the Academy, just sayin. The standards are not yet nationwide but we are working on this. 

I disagree that all cops make assumptions about 'brown people' or people of any color for that matter. Why do you say this? The job is law enforcement, having nothing at all to do with color. 

I do believe that things happen and they should be addressed accordingly. Perhaps not the most popular response, but if you fear being stopped by the cops you are likely guilty of something. 
 

It's late and I know better than to respond to a thread when tired but....
Wow. To say that cops do not make assumptions based on color is a major problem. If that is the outlook shared by most police enforcement agencies in this country I find that to be worrisome.
The problematic issues facing police will never be addressed or solved as long as these agencies do not admit to the problem itself.
Many people fear being stopped by the police when they are not doing anything wrong. Lol. We must live in very different worlds.
And the police academy needs to review some of their training prorams because cops are shooting people who should not be shot.
 

Last edited by zeke (8/28/2016 10:09 pm)

 

8/30/2016 12:39 pm  #37


Re: Unflipping Believable

There are standards in policing already in place. They have to go through a lot of training to become police officers and they have to do required retraining all the time.  What one needs to understand is that there is no standard in how a person reacts or behaves when approached by police.  There is a lot of misinformation being circulated throughout he African-American communities about what your rights are if the police try to arrest or detain you. Many African-americans believe they have the right to resist when being arrested when in actuality they don't.  I really think there needs to be a community education program of some sort where African-americans can be taught about their rights as they really are and how to react when approached by police and what their recourse is if they are being illegally arrested or detained.  I really think the misinformation being circulated is a big part of the problem.


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

8/30/2016 1:12 pm  #38


Re: Unflipping Believable

Ah and I see it differently. The misinformation is with those police officers who believe it's ok to shoot black and brown people (maybe they are right) and then get away with it.
This notion is much older than any of us.  To Kill a Mockingbird:  "Tom Robinson attempted to escape and was shot seventeen times".  Sound familiar? (Please don't tell me it's a novel....I know that.)  It's as old as the hills and is passed down through generations of blacks who are/were victims of "the authorities". In this country, the killing of black men has always been business as usual.
No offense need, but I have never seen you write anything but defense for the cops. Are they never wrong? And how do you know of misinformation being circulated throughout the AA community?

 

8/31/2016 1:11 pm  #39


Re: Unflipping Believable

I don't disagree with you that people of color have been victims of racism in this country. All I am saying is until I know he whole story I am not willing to trash this police officer. I know misinformation is being circulated throughout the African-American community because I have had many seen many in that community saying that they have a right to resist on social media.  That is widely believed within the African-American community.

Last edited by needtosay (8/31/2016 1:14 pm)


No matter how educated, talented, rich, or cool you think you are, how you treat people tells us all.  Integrity is everything.
 

9/01/2016 8:33 am  #40


Re: Unflipping Believable

And that is a good example of the negative influence of Social Media. To think that what you read there is representative of the entire AA population in this country is simply untrue. Again, I do not believe that most blacks in this country think it is their right to resist arrest. But it will be a question I pose to a lot of AA people going forward because now I am curious to know what the answer will be. 

 

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