Vantro wrote:

No one has really discussed the issue of Ohio being an open carry state. Remember Tamir was killed in less than 2 seconds of police arrival. Also no one seems to be discussing the lack of first aid to Tamir. How can anyone support these 2 officers? Cleveland police reated this entire problem starting with dispatch all the way down to the officers on the scene, complete failure. Absolute failure!

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Vantro, I have brought this question up every time the Tamir Rice is  discussed anywhere & no one EVER answers my question. I  asked several people on the old View board the question & "crickets"....Why in an Open Carry State were Tamir Rice & John Crawford both killed by police? Shouldn't the police have asked to see their open carry permit before shooting them? Maybe then they would have found out that both had toy guns & one was only twelve years old!!!! Why have there been news stories & pictures all over the internet showing ADULT white men walking around carrying guns, even assault type weapons in places like Wal-Mart, Starbucks, at political rallies, etc & not ONE of them were confronted, ordered to raise their hands, shot or KILLED? Hell, out on Bundy's ranch, his friends were actually pointing their guns at Federal Officials!!! No one KILLED...Does the second amendment apply only to  some citizens? Do open carry laws only apply to some citizens? 
 I have seen dozens of pictures of Tamir Rice...and IMO, he may have been tall but he LOOKED 12 years old to me & he most certainly didn't look 20 as the police said in their report!....
 I find it strange that some people will constantly make excuses why police feel threatened & therefore kill young black men who are unarmed or carrying toy guns but police who are confronted by white young men who they KNOW just shot up a theatre full of people, or killed 9 people in a church  don't feel threatened enough to shoot or kill them!..Is an unarmed black man more of a threat than a fleeing murderer?
 I have quite a few comments about this case but I'll just wait for someone to answer these  for now? 
 

I didn't know they were open carry states until recently-Texas is joining in that "fun" soon-expect there to be more "incidents"

Sam wrote:

I don't get it either SEC. A white mass murderer is taken by the cops safely & they even put a bullet proof vest on him to protect him from harms way.  But a 12 year old black boy is shot dead because he had a toy gun.  The fact that Ohio is an open carry state makes it even more hard to understand.

I also do not like the words used to describe the different "alleged criminals".  When a white man shoots multiple people, he automatically has "mental issues".  But when a black child/man is accused he is a thug. That thug word really bugs me.  I swear it is like the new "code" for the "N word".

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I don't even think it's a "code" anymore.

Here are some blacks that have publicly been called thugs : Tayvon Martin, President Barack Obama, Michael Brown, NFL player/Stanford graduate, Richard Sherman, Ludicris and Jay-Z.

Here are some whites that weren't called thugs: Robert Lewis Dear, Sean Harper-Mercer, Dylan Roof, Adam Lanza, and James Holmes...

Kinda makes you wonder what a thug really is!!

 

It is crazy. SEC is absolutely correct with her remarks about white ppl carrying guns. Anyone remember the Confederate flag parade? Bundy? Tea party rallies? How about the rally against Muslims where white ppl made direct threats towards Muslims? Bundy's clan assaulted a police dog by kicking it & had guns aimed at law enforcement heads while making threats. Yeah no there is no double standard here, why can't black ppl just be over it? Smfh!

While there is most definitely a racial element within Cleveland police department, which I believe is well rooted & fed, the police problem is a real problem for all Clevelanders. Too many of the police are crooked with an ego & that ego will feed on any control or power it can get.

needtosay wrote:

Tamir was pointing his gun at people as they walked by and that is what got the police involved.  They got a report of a guy pointing a gun at people.

 
What do other children do with toy guns? Tamir did not point the gun at police & there are conflicting stories regarding the officers command. One report states, "put your hands up" & the other report states the command was, "drop your weapon". If it was the latter then how can he drop his weapon in his waistband unless he handles the pellet gun?

needtosay wrote:

They make that determination when the person reaches to where the gun is on their person. At that point it is necessary for the police officer to make a very quick decision. His life and others might depend on it.  In a cops mind it is either shoot him or get shot.  That is essentially the choice they are making in that moment.

 
So the cops speed up on the suspect putting themselves in danger & in 2 seconds they reached the point of fear? They put themselves in this situation & Tamir paid for their mistakes. They literally jumped the gun & gave neither themselves nor Tamir the time to do anything rational. How can you excuse the 2 seconds? Literally 2 seconds from the time they screeched up on Tamir to Tamir laying on the ground bleeding out without first aid for 4 minutes. In excusable.

Last edited by Vantro (12/30/2015 11:57 am)

These "cops" need better training & protocol.

Just because someone is a Police Officer it does not mean that they are always right.  A 12 year old boy is dead & some people act like it's ok that Police Officers are allowed to make such a huge mistake & have no accountability.

The police make that determination when they see him reaching for the gun.  That is what happened in this case.  The cops didn't know that he was just a child and the gun was a toy.  They didn't know what his intentions were.  In situations like this they have to make split second decisions. 

It's clear to me as well.  The history of the older, shooter cop, Timothy Loehmann, reflects that he never should have become a cop in Cleveland:Northeast Ohio Media Group reported on Tuesday that Loehmann had been rejected for a deputy sheriff job that he had applied for in September 2013. The county released Loehmann's job application and exam scores in response to a public records request. Loehmann was among 35 applicants who passed the physical exam but failed the written test, the records show.Loehmann previously also was unsuccessful in getting jobs with police departments in Akron, Euclid and Parma Heights. He had been looking for a police job since he resigned from the Independence police department in November 2012 following a poor performance review. He had worked there for five months.Loehmann eventually landed a job with the Cleveland police department in March 2014. The city's background check did not turn up the Independence performance review.

SEC4ever wrote:

Vantro wrote:

No one has really discussed the issue of Ohio being an open carry state. Remember Tamir was killed in less than 2 seconds of police arrival. Also no one seems to be discussing the lack of first aid to Tamir. How can anyone support these 2 officers? Cleveland police reated this entire problem starting with dispatch all the way down to the officers on the scene, complete failure. Absolute failure!

=================
Vantro, I have brought this question up every time the Tamir Rice is  discussed anywhere & no one EVER answers my question. I  asked several people on the old View board the question & "crickets"....Why in an Open Carry State were Tamir Rice & John Crawford both killed by police? Shouldn't the police have asked to see their open carry permit before shooting them? Maybe then they would have found out that both had toy guns & one was only twelve years old!!!! Why have there been news stories & pictures all over the internet showing ADULT white men walking around carrying guns, even assault type weapons in places like Wal-Mart, Starbucks, at political rallies, etc & not ONE of them were confronted, ordered to raise their hands, shot or KILLED? Hell, out on Bundy's ranch, his friends were actually pointing their guns at Federal Officials!!! No one KILLED...Does the second amendment apply only to  some citizens? Do open carry laws only apply to some citizens? 
 I have seen dozens of pictures of Tamir Rice...and IMO, he may have been tall but he LOOKED 12 years old to me & he most certainly didn't look 20 as the police said in their report!....
 I find it strange that some people will constantly make excuses why police feel threatened & therefore kill young black men who are unarmed or carrying toy guns but police who are confronted by white young men who they KNOW just shot up a theatre full of people, or killed 9 people in a church  don't feel threatened enough to shoot or kill them!..Is an unarmed black man more of a threat than a fleeing murderer?
 I have quite a few comments about this case but I'll just wait for someone to answer these  for now? 
 

 ​I believe I answered that question.  Once a someone is reaching for the weapon they are not going to stand there and ask for the CC license.  They are going to react to the perceived threat.  This kid was reported to have been pointing the gun at people.  There was a reasonable perception of danger there.  Again, the police did not know that the kid was only twelve and the gun was fake.